Lani Fogelberg: What’s Holding New Zealand Businesses Back?

Lani Fogelberg left her role at one of New Zealand’s pre-eminent commercial finance brokerage firms to take a step back from the corporate world and seek greater balance in life. Using her expertise in complex problem-solving, strategy and growth initiatives, she launched her own consulting firm.

In the current New Zealand business environment, Lani helps businesses get their fundamentals right. Her pragmatic yet consultative approach ensures strategies are delivered in line with what is both clear and achievable for the business in question, no matter the obstacle or goal.

There are a few things happening in the world that are impacting SMEs and business and the economy. How’s the world of consulting?

The world of consulting is busy. I don’t speak for every business consultant out there, but certainly for me, the last few months have been just absolutely hectic. But in a good and bad way, because a lot of the work that I’ve been doing has been with business owners that are freaking out and that’s difficult.

But at the same time, it is rewarding because then when you get the results, you’ve got very, very relieved people. From my point of view, it’s been a busy few months.

You left the nice, secure world of financial brokerage and went out on your own into business consulting at the end of 2019, on the cusp of some fairly big changes. Do you look back at that and ask why?

No, not at all. I’ve not regretted leaving employed life for one second. Last month was my one year anniversary since leaving employed life. When I did that, I didn’t have a plan and when my resignation was announced, it was probably one of the most humbling experiences of my life because I had so many people say, ‘What are we going to do without you? Can you come and do this for me? Can you come and do that for me?’ And I say, ‘Okay, sure, but not right now, because I need some Lani time.’

I didn’t quit employed life to become a management consultant at all, that was not the intention. I wanted to take some time out, pursue some passion projects, do some travel, have a holiday. It was late in 2019 when I decided to answer these calls and things just took off from there.

I landed some fairly large projects in early 2020. Some of them have continued, some of them have faulted. Then when the pandemic genuinely hit New Zealand, that’s when things got quite busy. So I’ve not regretted it for a minute. I love the life that I live now versus the life that I lived before.

What was the catalyst for going out into the world with a blank canvas?

At the time I said, I’m 30 years old, I feel like I’m 80 and all I’ve got to show for myself is a pile of money. That’s literally what I said to people when I left. I felt like I was 80, I was tired, I needed a break. I just felt like I was working in an environment that didn’t fit Lani. I’d just woken up to that fact.

I remember being at my brother’s police graduation and being on my phone all day, emailing all day and I just said, ‘I’m out,’ and a day or two later, I resigned. That was really the catalyst for me. I just wanted a complete break.

Obviously now with my consulting business, because it’s very rapidly evolved into something much bigger than what I anticipated that it would, of course it’s got a very robust plan around it. But certainly when I first started, there was no plan as such.

It was just to do ad hoc work and I was working about 10 hours a week before the pandemic. Whereas in the first few weeks of lockdown, it was 80 hours a week. Now it’s dropped back down to about 50, 60, which is fine, I can deal with that.

I’m intrigued by the pile of money, where did that come from?

Multiple places, I suppose. I got into the property market when I was very, very young. I’ve had an element of success in business as well. There’s no magic formula or anything like that. It’s just come from the fact that I’ve worked very hard since I was 18 and, over a period of time, had a certain element of success.

If we go back even further, what was it in you that drove you to work hard and invest in property? Did your parents instill something in you?

No, I don’t remember ever being told anything specific by my mom and dad about what I need to do. I come from a very typical Auckland middle class family. Not particularly well off, but certainly not poor. The only thing I remember ever having instilled in me was just to be happy and do what I want.

So in terms of working hard, I can go back to primary school and see the work ethic that was in me. Working hard isn’t even a concept to me. It’s just you’re either working or you’re not. I remember from a very young age being very dedicated to my academic studies. I was always the teacher’s pet, the nerd that got bullied and all that jazz, at primary and intermediate school.

As I’ve got older, I really grew into myself. Whilst I’ve never been a shy person, I was probably a little bit held back when I was younger just from not having some great times at school. I wanted to go to university, but I didn’t know what I wanted to do so I went out and got a job. Things just really went from there.

I find it to be a very boring story, to be quite honest. I remember when I was 17 saying to one of my girlfriend’s mums that I wanted to buy a house. And they were like, ‘Really?’ I’m like, ‘Yeah, why not?’ That’s what I’ve always worked towards.

Do you think there’s an element of envy politics? If you spend too much time reading comments on news articles on anything related to property investors and landlords, they’re seen as these evil people.

I certainly think that it comes back to that whole Tall Poppy Syndrome. There’s this underlying current in New Zealand of not really wanting people to stand out and do well. New Zealand is known for that and when it comes to the property market, I certainly feel that’s a thing.

I remember living in quite a nice property a number of years ago when I was maybe 24, 25 and there were a few people that, once they’d been to my home, they would treat me differently. It’s a very eye opening thing, especially when you’re that young and a bit naive, with regards to people having this attitude to success.

So I absolutely agree with you that there is an element of envy politics when it comes to this commentary on the property market. People almost want it to crash because they want to see the people that have done well take a hit. It’s sad but I do think there’s an element of truth in that.

The helicopter money is going to run out and there’s going to be a whole lot more hurt out there. Where do you see that sitting within the context of the discussion that we’re having around success and the wider community?

I firmly believe that it’s been a bit of a wake up call. When I say this, I’m not talking about people that are involved in industries that are just fundamentally hurt by the pandemic, like tourism or hospitality, for example. This comment is absolutely not about people like that, but I think it is potentially going to be a wake up call for people to have contingency plans.

Whether it’s individuals or businesses, they need to operate from a place of value and a place of contribution and also exercise a duty of care to their staff and their employees. I think anyone that’s not doing that, if this hasn’t been a wake up call for them to make a change towards behaving in that way, then that’s going to be difficult for them in the long term, setting aside the fact that we’ve got these quantitative factors like the helicopter money coming into the picture.

I think if this hasn’t been a wake up call for people like that, then they’re going to struggle because it is going to change the way that we do business in New Zealand. There are obviously still a lot of businesses prior to the pandemic that come from this place of value and this place of service and this place of contribution, which sounds a little bit namby pamby, but the fact of the matter is, that’s what people will want and what people will need.

That’s the kind of business that’s going to still be operating in this different economy, this weird economic environment that we’re in. Same on an individual level as well. It’s the people who are willing to accept that they do need to have a contingency plan are the people who are going to be okay. That obviously has that emotional and mental ripple effect as well.

What do you mean by the mental ripple effect? Are you talking about after the GFC or even ‘87 crash where you could see this reluctance towards the share market and it carried on for a couple of generations?

Yeah. It’s going to impact the level of caution that people have to various things, whether it’s property or the share market, but I’m also talking about the resilience that people either do or don’t possess, again, talking in a personal context, but then from a business owner perspective as well.

The people that are able to take an objective or a pragmatic approach to this situation, be it personal or business, are going to better be able to weather this storm. Whereas if they don’t have that, then they can become almost crippled by their emotions into inaction, which is dangerous.

What are some of the main hurdles that a lot of the businesses that you’re working with facing right now? Are there some fundamental things that you’re really shaking up?

The common denominator conversations that I’ve been having with a lot of clients is a lack of contingency planning or continuity planning, but that has largely actually arisen out of just a lack of business plan and financial plan.

It’s remarkable the number of businesses out there that don’t have any kind of cash flow forecast. They don’t actually take the time to predict what cash they might have in the bag next month, or the month after.

It’s very, very difficult to make decisions when you don’t have that data to empower those decisions.

That lack of cashflow forecasting, is that particularly a New Zealand thing? Are we a little bit behind the eight ball?

I would say it’s more of the ‘She’ll be right’ attitude. That’s just a bit of a Kiwi thing that I see, not just in business, but it translates into people’s personal financial situations as well. It’s the whole, ‘She’ll be right. As long as we find some work, we’ll make money.’ Sadly, that’s not the way to operate a business.

How do businesses respond? You’ve got this massive external force happening out there, but are people generally receptive to you coming in and telling them they need to put some forecasting in?

Yeah, absolutely. You do come across the odd occasion whereby clients are emotional and hurt by the pandemic. This is their livelihood that’s been impacted. Sometimes, even though they agree to a fundamental action plan for example, it can take quite a bit of coaxing to get them to take that action because they’re nervous and they’re scared. That’s something that someone in my position does need to be very mindful of. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

You do need to be a bit sensitive in these kinds of circumstances. But largely, people don’t engage me if they don’t want to do the work. I’ll recommend the different implementations that they need to carry out and in some instances I’ll help with the implementation as well if they don’t have the resources to be able to do that. But largely if they’re engaging any kind of outside advisor, they’re feeling compelled to do something, so generally it’s not an issue.

You mentioned the emotion, which is totally understandable. Do the lines start to blur between consultant/coach/counsellor/therapist?

Absolutely. I found this in my previous role that I was in for seven years, which was very much financial based. You do become a sounding board for the client. I think it’s very important because quite often they don’t have someone else that they can talk to and sometimes the conversation might just be purely them venting and that’s okay because they just want someone who can understand. It is a big part of it, it really is.

We do have our issues with mental health and depression and maybe it is coupled with this stoic, ‘she’ll be right’ nature, but running any sort of business can be a very lonely thing as well. Have you got any advice for any networks that someone can create to share the load and the burden?

I think one of the most important things, and this is going to sound so millennial, but if you don’t have a lot of people in your immediate network who can really empathise with your situation, like friends that are in business and facing similar situations, social media is a really, really good way to connect with people.

The only thing that people can do is speak up and find someone in the network one way or the other. If they just withdraw, they’re going to almost just get stuck in a flywheel of emotion, which can be very, very destructive for both the business and themselves.

Being younger, are there any hurdles with some of the older generations listening to you, taking you seriously and making really fundamental changes to their business based on what you’re saying?

It’s funny, I used to worry about that when I was a lot younger, 24, 25. It blows my mind that people have engaged with my consulting business who initially knew me through following my personal Instagram account, which is just me going off and having fun and enjoying myself. They’re engaging with me on a business level.

But having said that, there’s so much information available on the internet about anyone, including myself, so by the time that someone engages with me professionally, they already know that I’m this relatively young, blonde woman who seems to know her s**t. They already know who I am and they know where my expertise is and they respect that.

If they didn’t, then they wouldn’t engage me. I think if I was sent in by my boss to work for a client, they might take a look and go, ‘What does she know about this business?’ It’s a very good question, but it hasn’t presented any issue.

Does that speak to a shift that’s happening? We are becoming more authentic, people are realising that there’s more depth to someone’s personality than a curated LinkedIn profile shot.

People can perceive this the way they want, but I just don’t care what people think of me. The only times I care about what people think of me is when they’ve engaged with me. Obviously I want my family to feel like I’m a good daughter and a good sister and I want my friends to feel like I’m a good friend. I want my clients to feel like I’m a good management consultant.

Those are the only times I care what people think of me. In terms of the way that I’m perceived online, I am going to be myself. I love going and doing my thing on the weekend and going out. I like to have a drink. I like to have a good night out, or I like to take stupid photos of my car.

Life’s too short, we’re all going to end up in the same place. If someone’s going to judge me and not like that, then they can go and live their boring lives. I just think there’s no space in life to be self-conscious or to worry about the way that people perceive you.

It’s different when you’ve got that one on one relationship. Of course, I want people to think that I’ve just done a fabulous job for them, that’s different. But just at face value? I’m me, they can deal with it.

Do you see with the business owners that you’re working with that the metrics for success are changing and there are other considerations there? Are we becoming more purpose driven?

Oh, absolutely. With the ‘pile of money’ comment I made earlier, the one thing that I should convey is that money is not actually what drives me. I remember a friend asking my last year, ‘what makes you happy?’ And my answer was ‘Making other people happy.’ And he was like, ‘That’s bulls**t, that can’t be what makes you happy.’ I’m like, ‘It is!’

It’s doing good things for people and it feels good and everyone wants that. Money’s great, but if you’re sick, if you don’t have your health, it doesn’t mean jack. So for me, just doing good things for other people is what pulls me. If you do a good job of it, then yeah, money does come along and that’s just a byproduct of it. It’s a perk, I suppose.

I’ve been very, very fortunate from that respect, but success for me is having as much contribution to other people’s lives as possible. This is something that I discussed with my clients and the very first conversation is learning what success looks like for them, because not everyone wants to go out and be the next Warren Buffet. Some people just want to have a nice little business that they can work 20 hours a week, instead of 40, so that they can go and tinker with something in the garage or go to their beach house or ride their horses.

Not everyone wants to have this business that operates internationally or is in the Deloitte Fast 50. Success is different for everyone. That’s a really important conversation that I think people need to have because it can be so much pressure for people just to be all about money, money, money and I hate that.

As a counter to that, if we really want to do something on a global stage, do we just need to shake it up a little bit and have that element of ambition?

That’s the beauty of the world, right? Everyone’s different. If everyone was like that, it’ll be boring. I agree, that’s very much my mindset. I’ve got very big ambitions, but it’s just who I am and it’s the way that I always have been.

I think if everyone was like that then, would that be so exciting? Would that be such a good thing? We do need that variety and if people are content with much less than that and a much lower level of ambition, I think it’s okay. Because ultimately, happier people make better people and we need more of that.

You work with a broad range of companies. Is there a certain common denominator in the type of business that will come?

Most of my experiences are in very blokey businesses. Infrastructure, logistics, anything around engineering, civil works, and it filters down to things like drainage or concreting, for example. I also work with businesses in the medical field, as well as tourism and in retail trade services.

I don’t have a lot of female clients and I think that it’s just largely because my experience lies in those really blokey industries. I hope no one finds that sexist at all, but that’s just the reality of where my experience has mostly been.

If we look at the new New Zealand and the new economy, where do you see the new potential?

It is quite a difficult question to answer, but I firmly believe that it’s going to be not necessarily industry specific, but any kind of business that can create value for other businesses. That’s huge, obviously. That could cover anything from a business that looks at digital enablement from a more value-lead perspective, for example.

There’s a business that I’m starting at the moment with my business partner that’s designed to provide greater value to the tourism industry. I truly believe that that business is going to become hugely successful because it’s going to deliver a better result for tourism operators in New Zealand than what they’re currently receiving from a similar type of business.

I think it’s anyone that’s going to be able to create value and prosperity for other businesses in New Zealand that are going to become successful and who have the opportunity right now. We’re in a contraction period heading towards recession, so it’s the perfect opportunity to start something.

With some of our primary industries and the export side of things, we still send products overseas unprocessed. Do you see the potential there, particularly with the industries that you’re working with, to find extra yield and extra margin?

Yeah, absolutely. There’s huge potential. The three step process that I go through with any businesses, specifically relating to the pandemic, is number one, making sure that they’re all over the different types of assistance that’s available to their business specifically.

Secondly, was nailing the financial side; making sure that they’ve got a financial plan moving forward. Then thirdly has been looking at the operational side, which includes getting more money in the door, but also making sure that with that financial plan is actually a plan for what’s going to happen with that money when it comes in and that every cent is being built for all its worth.

You want that money coming in the door to translate into bottom line profit, so what can we do in the middle here that’s going to help that filter through? The number of businesses that I’ve worked with where I see that opportunity to increase revenue is phenomenal.

There is so much opportunity there, but because these businesses are typically the owners, they’re typically so involved in the day to day running of the business, they don’t have the time, or sometimes the impetus, to take a step back and say, ‘Okay, how are we gonna get more money in the door next month? How are we going to diversify our income? How are we going to increase our revenue and the number of revenue streams that we have?’

I think that it’s a hugely important thing that businesses do need to focus on, but not without having a plan back here first.

What advice would you have for being able to juggle that?

Have someone to keep you accountable. If you can’t keep yourself accountable, have someone else to keep yourself accountable. That could be your husband or your partner or your accountant or a friend that you have in business and you keep each other accountable.

It’s just as simple as just sitting down and doing, like any habit. If you don’t have the time as well, you potentially do need to engage someone to work on that with you.

Have you ever seen a situation where it’s just not tenable?

Yes and no. Certainly you encounter situations where there’s a problem which is fixable but the energy may just not be there to fix it. In some cases, I look back and wish I was involved in this business 12 months ago, because you could have fixed a problem then. If someone’s been dealing with a problem for so long, sometimes they’re just at the end of their tether.

But almost every business is fixable. That may mean that massive changes need to happen because the model might just not be right, but where there’s a will there’s a way. Problem solving is probably my biggest skill, along with negotiation. When I was eleven, I remember taking this extracurricular class at school, which was literally called problem solving. That’s what my reputation’s been built on. It’s finding the problem and fixing it.

But to answer your question, no, I haven’t had any clients where a business is just not going to work. We find a way of fixing it and it’s not necessarily easy, but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

In terms of the recurring problems, what similarities are you seeing? Is it people just getting so bogged down in the grindstone and missing the fundamentals of the business?

If you think about personal finance, for example, we’re not taught in school how to manage our money and business owners who go into business, they’re not taught how to run a business. They have to foster and acquire these skills in some way and it’s either by doing, but there’s a risk that they’re doing it wrong, so they’re not actually learning the right way, or they have to have someone teach them and help them.

That whole common denominator of things not happening, like forecasting as an example, it can be because they don’t know how, or they haven’t made the time to learn. That’s what it comes down to at the end of the day, recognising where the gaps are within the business and being taking action to address them and fill them.

Where do you see the potential for startups to raise capital at the moment?

At the end of the day, there are still both banks and non-bank financial institutions that have their books open. They are lending money, but the key is making sure that any approach is done in the right way because if you get a ‘no’ from your bank when you’re looking to raise capital, it’s very, very hard to turn that ‘no’ mentality around from whoever’s assessed that approach or that application.

In the case of startups, it’s having a plan, it’s having your forecast done. Those conversations between a business and a financial institution need to be handled in a very, very specific way to get the result that you want. By simply just delivering information that’s got anomalies in it or raises red flags without anticipating what those red flags might be and overcoming them before you have that conversation, you’re going to set yourself up for funding failure.

It’s just very important to know what you’re doing, in the case of a startup or an existing business, when it comes to raising capital. It’s ideal to have someone in the middle, whether it be a broker or someone client side, to make sure that when you put a proposal together, you’ve got everything you need. But also perhaps know whether or not it’s going to be approved in the first place so that if you’re not in a position to get funding, they advise not to apply just now and wait a while.

The money is out there, to answer your question. I’ve spoken to a couple of financiers this week who have said that they’re lending. It’s just a matter of understanding how best to approach it.

Are we going to see some more liquidity in some of those private funds?

Yes and no, because they may be looking to reinvest it internally. But having said that I see a huge amount of investment opportunity at the moment. When we look at publicly-listed companies, for example, everyone’s seen what the NZX has done, everyone’s seen what the NASDAQ has done. You’d see 40%, 80% gains in a single day or over a period of a couple of days. What would you even get on a term deposit? 1 or 2%?

There are opportunities to invest out there. I haven’t registered, but I’ve got the qualification as an authorised financial advisor with the investment strand and you do see a lot of people who treat that as gambling. They don’t actually understand the markets and understand the correlation between the different asset classes and so forth.

You’ve got this group of people who have got some money and they’re just dabbling, but they don’t really know what they’re doing. And then you’ve got the people who are more astute investors or business owners who will be looking for opportunities, whether it’s to bolster companies that are looking to grow or get them out of a jam.

There are potentially some very good returns there, but ultimately it comes down to making very educated investment decisions. And I say that for all spectrum of people, whether they’re investing millions or hundreds.

You mentioned opportunity before. Getting back to the socio-economic side of things, do you see the potential for the wealth gap to widen? There will be some people that are forced to sell off and there’ll be other people who are liquid coming in and sweeping it up?

That’s a difficult one. I try not to get into too much commentary around the wealth gap because my opinions can be quite blunt. I don’t want to offend the masses with things like that. Put it this way, as someone who has worked their ass off to achieve a certain level, yes, the opportunity is going to be there for someone like me. But I also equally recognise the struggle that people have just meeting day to day commitments and living from paycheck to paycheck or people that don’t have jobs because of the pandemic.

Whilst I sympathise with those people because it’s hard, sadly there is going to be opportunity from the pandemic for the people that are able to grasp opportunity. That’s a fact of life. I find that very difficult to comment on because whilst I recognise the facts, I also have that sympathy for people that are in a really tough spot at the moment.

Can we be constructive about it though? Have you got any advice for people to rewrite that generational thing?

I would like to see more collaboration between the people that are in the slightly more middle class, wealthy space and the lower socioeconomic space. And not necessarily the lowest socioeconomic space, but even just the next generation to ensure that they flourish as much as they potentially can.

It’s sharing knowledge that’s going to enable these people to get through tough times as well. From my point of view, sharing as much knowledge as I possibly can, and if that helps one or two people, then in my view, that’s a positive thing.

I’m launching an online education platform, the Personal Financial Management, that’s going to be really affordable for people to access, but it’s going to teach people what they don’t learn in school so that they don’t wind up in a position where they get made redundant from a pandemic and can’t cope financially, for example.

I’d like to see a greater recognition of the ability for the everyday Joe Blogs to help people that are struggling. That might be a bit ambitious, but rather than having a dig at the people that are struggling, how can more people help? That’s what I recognise.

Having said that, people have to want to get out. If they’re in a situation where they’ve been made a victim or it’s a bad situation, they do have to want to help themselves. You do have to have that level of personal accountability to get yourself into a better position. I’m very, very steadfast on that.

Are you optimistic about the future? Or is it all buggered?

No, it’s not. It’s absolutely not all buggered and if you feel that way, you might as well give up now. This is the same mentality I have around anything. If you are diagnosed with a serious illness, do you just give up and say, ‘I’m out’? No, that’s not what you do. You throw everything that you have at it and do what you can to come out the other side. You approach it with tenacity and hope and optimism.

So, no, I don’t think that everything is buggered. Having said that, we are in New Zealand and it’s a very, very different story in other parts of the world. But I think for Kiwis, we do have that ‘she’ll be right’ attitude and I think in this instance, elements of that could serve us well. We will be okay, we just have to make sure we face up to the facts and work through it.

Watch the full interview at M2magazine.com/video