How Impact Can Come From Many Angles

Polymath Nuwanthie Samarakone has the sort of CV that would give most overachievers a flush of envy. As well as helping the career pathways of graduates with her company ICE, she is an investor in impact-focused startups and an independent director for a wide range organisations, including Tourism Talent, a tourism skills-based business supporting Covid-19 impacted professionals; Kalandra Education Group, that provides Health Care Assistant Training; and Kokiri Construction, a consortium led by Ngāi Tai ki Tamaki with Downer and Hawkins, delivering social and residential developments at scale, to name just a few. And if that wasn’t quite enough to do with her time Nuwanthie was also a National Party candidate in the 2020 General Election. Nuwanthie shares with us what impact looks like for her and how the political and business worlds can work together.

 

     Politicians and entrepreneurs seem like entirely different species, but you’ve had some experience with both. Can you talk about that a little bit and explain what the similarities and the differences are?
There are some stark differences. As an entrepreneur, you can drive your own agenda – you know what you want to achieve, you can set up your own vision, and you can build it and the team around you as well. But as a politician, there are aspects of what the country or what the constituent you’re representing is looking for in what you can offer.

In terms of bringing these worlds together, I found just from my experience, it’s the self-drive, the ability to get up in the morning and to just get moving, but also taking people on the journey with you, which is very similar to running a company or building a business. And it is also just coming back to the “why” you are doing it.

I think the moment you forget why you’re doing something you’re passionate about, you start to make mistakes. I think the same sort of thing applies in the world of being an entrepreneur, but also as a politician. Seeing the world of politics from the outside as an entrepreneur was a massive learning [curve] for me because you start to look at trade, you start to look at investments, you start to look at the growth of businesses, growth of sectors in New Zealand.

But it all comes back down to policy and how it’s being delivered in Wellington. And what does it then mean for you and I? But also what does that mean [in terms of] how much money is coming out of our own back pocket? And then standing on the political front was almost, ‘Oh okay, so this is how it actually works in terms of getting traction and getting the outcomes that you want.’

And sometimes yes, that can be a lot slower than being an entrepreneur or running a business, but at the same time, I think it’s about keeping focus on – what’s that policy going to do for New Zealand? How will that then have value and impact for businesses, trade or whatever it is in terms of the sector that you’re covering as well? I felt I could do more of that by being on the inside versus being on the outside, forming, norming and creating businesses.

 

     You talk about this vision and this self-drive. Was that something that you saw in the politicians that we have – that they all have a vision for something, regardless of whether you might agree with that vision, that they’re all driven by doing something for the country?
Absolutely, yes. And regardless of party, regardless of the portfolio or the constituency that you led, when you really start to talk to people and you really start to listen to what they have to say, behind the disguise of just yes, you’re a politician and you’re an MP, it’s fascinating how individual stories have lead them to decide that they’ve got something to contribute.

It might be a small thing or it might be a really serious journey in terms of their own personal stories around say, child poverty or child abuse. There are some really fascinating aspects and you really take a step back and you go, ‘Wow, I’ve got to admire this person for one – putting their hand up and saying, actually, I want to be able to influence some form of change; but two – bringing that ability to just be human’.

I think we all could get that ultimately when we put our titles [aside] – whether it’s founder, whether it’s CEO, whether it’s for director, whether it’s an investor, whether it’s a politician – we’re all still human. In New Zealand, in Aotearoa, I feel like that is a component that we could bring more of – [to] bring our whole selves and really lean in and own it.

 

     It’s come to the boil in recent years, particularly in the US, there has been a real sense of very polarised factions, a total lack of nuance and identity politics. And perhaps we’ve kind of overlooked that here. Do you get the sense that we have some issues with that here also – that there is this lack of nuance and we are forgetting that grey area and that stuff in the middle?

Yes and no. I think there are certainly some challenges and that evolves as a country grows and develops, and becomes more global. We’re not just two little islands at the bottom of the ocean at the other end of the world.

I feel like we’ve had this former mentality but at the same time, we’ve also looked outward. I think the more we look outward, the more we will have some of those challenges, but we’re not probably as fractured as the United States or other countries, like even the UK, for instance, during the Brexit campaign.
We’re not as extreme. I think that the centre piece between the left and the right is still quite malleable, which also makes it very interesting for politicians where you’ve got to be able to captivate and capture those centre votes, whether it’s [from the] left or right.

 

     Again, when we’re talking about the political world and the entrepreneurial side of things, do you think that we could do with more entrepreneurs getting into politics – bringing some more of that fast-moving lateral thinking?

Yes, absolutely. It was, I think, one of the reasons I was asked to get involved in politics but also, I felt the need and that I could contribute something. It’s the lateral thinking and it’s the creativity, but it’s also running things like a business in some sense.

There’s no such thing as a free meal in my world; there’s no such thing as giving away something and expecting nothing [in return]. It’s about balance but it’s also about serious stewardship. It’s about proper governance. It’s about building teams and getting the best out of people as well. And so as part of that whole process, when you think about more entrepreneurs getting into the world of politics – absolutely. I think there is huge value and I think we’re starting to see that some of the new MPs have got real business experience.

It will be fascinating to see how that tracks for the next five to ten years and what real value they can bring. Because even though we’re living in a world of Covid, of uncertainty and fear, not only among business people but also among young people and just New Zealanders in general and in the world, when you break it down to the impact someone from the business lens can bring – such as bringing in serious trade deals or offshore investors so that we can retain IP and business links in New Zealand, so that we are actually growing our economy and building productivity, and not exporting it offshore to the United States, which is something we always look to do because we’re small and we don’t have the resources I guess – but if you’ve got a business lens and you’re bringing that into politics, the types of policy trade deals you can actually start to push forward is immense.

A lot of my tech entrepreneur friends [in] FinTech and AI, for them, their biggest challenge is that level of productivity and investor capital. So as politicians, if you’re in Parliament looking at policy, how do you drive that based on growth areas, whether it’s agritech, whether it’s robotics or whether it’s launching rockets into space? Those things, to me, are critical for our future.

 

     Are we entering a funny time where on one side, we’ve got these amazing entrepreneurs, but on the other side, there’s this rising sentiment against that? Are we all going to become socialists?
I hope not. And I really hope that anyone who does incredible things and wants to give back and to be able to drive value back – whether it’s to the overall economy or whether it’s to people or certain communities – [is acknowledged].

It’s human nature to feel a bit like, ‘Oh, my neighbour’s got a bigger house than me, or they’ve got more land across the road from me.’ But I think we’ve got to move past that. We are a team of five million people and so how do we ensure we can build on that and build on the fact that we need to look outward and think big? In order to do that, you can’t just be looking at your own backyard.

I certainly hope that we are in a position to want to do more, or to want to give more. I know for me personally-speaking, campaigning and knocking on doors in South Auckland was a massive eye-opener in terms of the untold stories in New Zealand from education to food and nutrition, to housing. I remember walking away – I’ve got a health degree by background – and thinking, ‘Crikey, there’s so much that we need to be doing here,’ but a lot of these things are also interlinked.

If you’ve got poor housing and nutrition, then would you turn up to school? Well, no. In fact, after the first set of lockdowns, a lot of the schools told me that close to 90 percent of their students weren’t returning to school.

To think just recently there was a release I think from the Minister of Education saying there are a lot of school children who are failing at their classes and education is going down. Well, of course it’s going to happen. It’s a direct impact. But I think it comes back down to what can we do? And for me, personally, I’ve always been about – here are my values and how do I help build those values out and make an impact?

So now one of the boards I’m on is around social housing and around how do we build more housing that’s affordable but also attainable, so there is a level of aspiration. It’s not a ‘here’s a free house or a free home for you’ because that model doesn’t work either.

 

     Just as a counter to my last question, do you think that while entrepreneurs are out there creating opportunity, in a lot of cases, we might not be aware of what’s happening in some of those communities? Have we created a bit of a buffer for ourselves with the nice cars and the nice houses?
Look, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a reward for achievement and you can have your own way of doing it or your own style. Absolutely, but I do feel that’s part of New Zealand in terms of our media, our levels of journalism, our levels of being able to tell stories of New Zealand. There’s a growing middle class and because of that, there is a buffer; I think there’s a natural buffer in terms of the ‘have-nots’.

A couple of months ago, there was a contract awarded for free school lunches across, I think, quite a few schools but what does that tell you? Well, what that tells me is innately then, there are some serious challenges where there is a massive barrier for food and healthy nutrition for our kids. But at least there are entrepreneurs who are doing something about that as well, which is great. And we need that.

We need more of that. And the last thing I will add is that you can’t expect the government to fix that. You’ve got to work with the private sector and build sustainable and scalable deals to then be able to venture out and deliver on some of those key needs and key issues.

 

     Speaking of all this, what is your vision? What are you out to do for the world?
So my one line for myself – and this is something that pulls me back to ‘why’ I do something – is about making values-based impact. So whatever it is I end up doing or engaging in, it’s got to have an impact and it’s got to be around social, it’s got to be around people, it’s got to be something around the environment. Those are my little tick boxes that I’ve got to go through when I’m planning something or thinking about exploring something.

It has forced me to rethink ‘me’ and what I want [over] the next ten years. And a lot of that is around, as part of values-based impact: what areas am I more passionate about that would definitely get me out of bed?

And one is around social housing. It just happened to be that I was really curious about the focus on effective infrastructure as the challenges associated will never go away in New Zealand. And so I wanted to do more in that space and because of my background around jobs and skills and workforce-planning, we can talk about building bridges and more roads but who’s going to do it? Someone’s got to do it. So how do we actually bring in people?

And the second area for me is around the aged care sector, given my health background. I realised how critical it is and what a burden it will be in this country, and that our health sector is not going to have the right infrastructure nor the right supply-demand challenges for the aged care sector. So that’s an area that I’m genuinely focused on.

From a sustainability perspective, anything in the agricultural world – that has been my real push. We talked about waterways and that was a huge part of what we were campaigning. And I thought, ‘Well, hang on, that’s cool as a policy but who’s doing that? Who’s driving that and how do we actually make an impact in the local community?’ So what drives me? It’s got to be around that impact and it has got to come back down to those values for me.

 

     The three things that you’ve mentioned there are vast issues in themselves. How do you go about actually having some influence there?
I think the first thing is pulling in like-minded people around the table. If you think about those three areas, there are so many people out there who are genuinely wanting to create a network that can come together and do things and deliver. Because what we are very good at in New Zealand is duplicating things. We’re all kind of in our own little pockets doing our own thing, which I find hugely frustrating because when you think about efficiency and productivity in this country – which is awful – how do we keep building on that? Well, the only way to do that is to bring forces together. So from a social housing perspective, for instance, I’m working with two large private sector business and even bringing in other colleagues of mine who I know to actually deliver on making impact in areas within Auckland or New Zealand, and who can also drive access to housing and have the aspiration to then be able to actually drive people to want to own a home.

Now that’s great from a policy perspective but the question is, how do they do it? So it is actually bringing people together and going, ‘Okay, what are the numbers? Let’s look at some hard targets.’ From a previous life running a company, which was basically my founding business helping young people get jobs, I looked at some of the numbers around helping young people get jobs straight from high school or straight from university, and helping disadvantaged students who have certain backgrounds that don’t enable them to have that visibility that sometimes most students might have.

How do we actually help them get those jobs? It is about driving that visibility but being very direct about: here’s an impact number we want to make. And we have, and I’m really proud of that. So these three areas that are big areas, they are areas that I think if we continue to think of them as too big, we won’t be able to break parts of them into chunks and drive change.

Photography by Damien Van Der Vlist

 

     Was it a bit of a learning curve jumping into the board side of things? Is there that entrepreneur inside of you that gets frustrated sometimes with having to be diplomatic and more strategic instead of being able to just get in there and do what you need to do?
I’m quite picky about the types of boards and the types of governance roles I want to go into, because it’s that fine line of being strategic but also just getting on with it. I think as a business owner, you just get on with it but you have also got a board around you.

That was one of the first things I did actually – was to set up a board around me so that I’ve always got someone to rein me in. It helps to keep both feet grounded and to just know what the ins and outs are. So it is but it’s also not – and I say that because a lot of, and even large, corporates are needing to be more agile. That word [‘agile’] is overused but you are needing to always rethink, reshape and redo. And as part of that process, you can’t keep the old or the same, thinking around the table. So as business owners or as entrepreneurs, the ability to shake things up or the ability to duck and dive, and think laterally is, I think, more than critical. Which is one of the reasons why I think with the school curriculums – looking at things like curiosity or learning environments, because if we don’t start to build young talent and young people to think and ask questions, but also ask the right questions and then rejig how that’s played out – we’re just going to be doing the same old thing.

I think with Covid last year, when it really hit us in this country, it made us either realise that you were either going to reshape your business composition, or park it altogether. I think that applies, whether you’re a large multinational or a small startup.

 

     I know that ‘agile’ is an overused word and sometimes you get the sense that some businesses use it as an excuse to get rid of a whole lot of middle management, but from your experience, do we live up to the talk?
I think some sectors do better than others. So you think about Fintech, you think about Agritech, you think about even areas within New Zealand such as the Bay of Plenty and Tauranga – they are growing at such a pace and they are inviting innovation, they are inviting that level of agility across businesses and creating environments for it.

As a result, people are either moving out or shifting or they are reshaping their businesses. So I think some sectors do better than others. And then you’ve got the traditional ones that need more of a push, I believe, to be able to deliver what we need. Infrastructure is a very traditional sector in that sense.
It’s very male-dominated, it’s very project management-dominated, it’s dominated by only some very short, sharp key players that all kind of work together. And then you wonder why it takes four years or five years to build the Southern Motorway or take the RMA – I can go on about the RMA. And so there are all those components that play a part, but I think some sectors definitely do much better than others, for sure.

     

     Even in the scientific world and even for some of the government pitches – it’s all the same people, it’s all the same network, the old club. So it is hard to get new innovation into some places.

It is and then sometimes it’s challenging that mentality of being open to wanting new players around the table. And I think that is something that we don’t do very well here in New Zealand. I think about other countries and other markets, I think about San Francisco, I think about Singapore even, I think about Australia, our cousins across the ditch – they are very much about, we need this sort of thinking, let’s just do it, let’s start with something and let’s just get on with it.
Whereas in New Zealand, you mentioned there is this club, but also I would allude to the fact that if you don’t come almost within their own processes, you are seen as an outsider and you are on the back foot. Which is a real shame because actually, why are we talking about diversity and inclusion, whether it’s companies or employing people?

Let’s think about inclusion first. Inclusion is where it starts before you invite diversity around the table, and that’s a classic example of whether it’s getting policy-driven or whether it’s getting entrepreneurs to drive something and make an impact for communities or for their own businesses. How do you actually entail bringing in other players and not feeling like you need to be more of the same?

 

     In terms of D&I, do you think we are missing something that gets to the fundamentals of what you are talking about – the real core of how you operate as a business from that inclusive perspective and allowing outsider ideas that might really drive innovation for that company? Have we kind of missed that point?
I’m going to say yes. I think so. I believe that. I look at my own journey and I’m young, I’m female, I tick a few boxes and I’ve sat in meetings where I feel like I’m simply there because I’m ticking a few boxes. And I’m thinking, ‘Well, hang on, let’s go back to the core ‘why?’ Let’s work out the ‘why’’.
The badges, the rainbow ticks – everything else – those are all fabulous tools to keep a company or a team of people on track when it comes to what we are measuring, so it’s not all fluffy and beautiful.

But ultimately, as an organisation, I always say the “I” should come before the “D”. It shouldn’t be D&I, it needs to be I&D because if you don’t have inclusivity in that room or around that table, you’re on the back foot if you’re someone seen to be or deemed to be diverse.

I don’t think we do that part very well. I think because we’ve got great tools and we’ve got a framework, which is really important whether it’s increasing more Māori or Pasifika into your workforce, whether it’s more LGBTI in your workforce – whatever it is, how do we come back to the ‘why?’ Also as part of that ‘why’, I think we as a country have to be really open and honest with ourselves and go, ‘Are we ready for some radical shifts and changes?’

If you’re not, well then don’t step into that environment or space, or at least dip into it in bite-sized chunks because the worst thing is you’re giving a person the worst experience because they’re going to come into this thinking, ‘Great, they’re ready for me’ except culturally, they’re not – they’re not aligned.
And as leaders, if we don’t take that stand and say, we’ve got to have levels of inclusivity here in this space, in this room, and you’ve got to feel safe and open, everything else is simply ticking the box.

 

     Have you sometimes felt like you’ve been invited onto a board because you tick a box?
I was nearly and I thanked them, but I declined the offer.

 

     How could you tell?
I asked the question directly. You have got to be open and honest and upfront. And I felt like I was going to be the only female. I felt like you’ve got the gender tick, but then there were other things alongside that also. My response to the Chair at the time was, ‘Look, I’m already on the back foot, so I don’t think this is for me’.
You’ve got to want to know, but you’ve also got to own that because otherwise, you are on the back foot. Why are you there? It’s not about the social media channels or whatever it is. There’s so much more to it. And it’s being honest with yourself as well – as corporates or as businesses or as leaders. Are we simply ready for that change?

I look at some amazing examples in New Zealand like you have alluded to already – there are fabulous corporates and startups and high-growth businesses who are venturing in and being brave. And it’s not simply a metric, which is fabulous. You have got some really open, outspoken people, both men and women, who are challenging that and being a challenger brand, which is fabulous. We absolutely need more of that.

 

     Does it feel like a healthy medium between the world of politics and business, getting into the governance side?
It can be healthy. It can be unhealthy. I think it’s about how you trek through that. One thing I did come away with last year, and just reflecting on this during my summer break, was that everyone is in it to make their voices heard and do something for New Zealand, regardless of the jersey colour you’re wearing.

That was a really lovely experience to take a step back and learn and hear, and still – whether it’s Labour, whether it’s the Greens, whether it’s the Act party, whether it’s National – to be able to really know the amount of work that goes into being a politician or to be in politics. That was a huge eye-opener.

People would say, ‘Oh, I thought starting a business and building one was hard enough but actually, this is a different type of hardness’. And so I think there’s a respect, is what I would say. And for me, it’s about just knowing how to trek through that.

I also think the advantage I’ve got is, I understand how policies are formed and function, and how that has an impact. And so being around the board table now means that I can talk to some of that stuff and ask the right questions.

 

     It was a little jarring, to be honest, when you said that you were right-wing. It was interesting because you were also talking about some of the takeaways from your time in politics; going into the homes of families and getting an insight there – that doesn’t sound very right wing.
One of the things we touched on earlier around the fractions or the ways in which things have evolved; in New Zealand, we as a people have evolved. I think we’ve come a long way and I think that’s partly the ‘why’ for me. It was about bringing a different voice to the table.

I’m still right wing in that sense but I’m also, as I said, really liberal. You can’t sit there and say, this is how it’s going to work; you’ve got to take personal responsibility to get far. It’s not that simple. It just doesn’t work that way. There have got to be public and private partnerships. There have got to be ways in which communities reengage.

And I think to your point, that’s another fabulous way of saying, I think politicians need to learn to re-engage with their people. And that was learning, for me, in terms of how you engage, how you learn, how you grow, how you develop but also, how you listen.